The Pregnant Man

May 8th (3 months ago)

Posted by: +Ill

That's exactly the point I've been saying, when people said "oh how unfair on the child to be raised by them, imagine the stigma" etc etc and I just tell them well I don't imagine that Pregnant Man's life was any easier growing up transgendered. To which of course their reply is "then why would they want to wish that on their child".... um, yeah. Hey maybe all marginalised peoples should just stop breeding!!!!!

i'm not emaline

May 8th (3 months ago)

Posted by: +Ill

Just read the article, great post.

i'm not emaline

May 8th (3 months ago)

Posted by: !gas!panic!

yeah, i don't think it's the parents that subject the child to any sort of stigma. one person can't create a social stigma.

May 8th (3 months ago)

Posted by: +88 Kickin Keys

i heard that story on NPR yesterday, good shit.

"I am really, really into bestiality."

-anonymous

May 8th (3 months ago)

Posted by: +88 Kickin Keys

and the thought struck me while listening that it's strange that the transgendered want to throw off one set of arbitrary societally created gender roles for another. it seems to me that if one recognizes how arbitrary traditional gender roles are, they wouldn't feel the desire to simply switch from conforming to male stereotypes to conforming to female ones. unless there is an inherent, biological root for the female desire to wear dresses and own pink stuff.

"I am really, really into bestiality."

-anonymous

May 8th (3 months ago)

Posted by: !gas!panic!

yeah, i made a similar point on the first page.

although can we say that these kids have "recognized how arbitrary traditional gender roles are"? it suggests that there's some sort of conscious, self-aware, self-motivated decision making process occurring ("oh, i want to play with girl things because our gender constructs are largely illusory, and boys should be allowed to play with girl things too, and i might as well even think of myself as a girl!"), and i'm not sure that that's the case.

i'm not even sure that we can say these kids are transgendered, and can transition. like i said, if i'm making a choice i'd side with the lady psychologist and say that they should transition -- her argument seems much less absolutist and much more flexible. i can see the reasoning for the "no kids under 11 transition" psychologists' argument, but then again, i imagine the vast majority of these kids that hte lady psych would have transition at an early age would be ready to transition at age 11 too, so why protract it and take away their toys and pink crayons and police their friends and all that.

unless there is an inherent, biological root for the female desire to wear dresses and own pink stuff.

well, there's certainly an inherent biological root for females to do some of the female-y things that they do. i mean, is the nurturing maternal instinct completely socially constructed??

May 8th (3 months ago)

Posted by: +88 Kickin Keys

although can we say that these kids have "recognized how arbitrary traditional gender roles are"?

well no, not the kids really. i feel like it ought to occur to the parents though, and adult transgendered people.

well, there's certainly an inherent biological root for females to do some of the female-y things that they do. i mean, is the nurturing maternal instinct completely socially constructed??

no, which is why i used fashion-based stereotypes as examples. that stuff is certainly socially constructed imo. i wouldn't deny that a tendency towards a nurturing personality is a female characteristic.

"I am really, really into bestiality."

-anonymous

May 8th (3 months ago)

Posted by: 1252

itt dorgers make themselves seem like assholes

Anyway he's not the first transguy to be preggers, and a lot of transpeople are like "WTF are you doing on Oprah?! You're going to fuck up your kid by being a media whore!!"

May 9th (3 months ago)

Posted by: !gas!panic!

cameron, do you think someone like him being in the news is a net gain or net loss for transppl generally? it may be a bit reductive to view this one man's media storm as applicable to thousands of ppl out there, but it's necessary -- the fact of the matter is that it is applicable in so much as it alters the way that the general public views transppl and issues related to transgederism, no?

i guess basically my point is that the democratic controlled congress is too timid to pass a trans-inclusive employment non-discrimination act b/c they are essentially afraid of political backlash, and at the same time the pregnant man is publicizing his pregnancy--which is viewed by middle america as some sort of circus freak show suited for daytime talk TV--to high heaven. it's pretty selfish and short-sighted.

May 9th (3 months ago)

Posted by: +Ill

itt dorgers make themselves seem like assholes

One springs to mind!

i'm not emaline

May 9th (3 months ago)

Posted by: !gas!panic!

That post is worthless without names!!!

May 9th (3 months ago)

Posted by: +Ill

It was a casual nod between Cameron and I!!!!!!!!!!! No names necessary!!!!!!!!!!!!

But who ever you are, mystery vulture... no, too obvious... midnight person.... I'm not entirely sure your hilarious "tranny" jokes and name-calling and mangina references are bringing the love, and regardless of being offended on Tails' behalf (that's his perogative) I find those comments just plain backwards, rude and really a poor reflection on an otherwise pretty decent guy, and if you could make a genuine effort not to present yourself as that person then I would find it far easier to be civil towards you!!!!!!! You probably mean no harm, but it's too ambiguous to be harmless at this point.

I'll be the first to admit I can get pretty snappy when I'm moody but I would surely like to hope I'm not making petty low blows tantamount to bigotry.

So.. yeah.

Hey guys hear about that pregnant man omg

i'm not emaline

May 9th (3 months ago)

Posted by: 1252

Yeah, people here are pretty backwards, though I like the word "mangina" actually. It's nicely descriptive.

Since I've moved to Portland I don't pass as much... mostly because I find clothing in general to be very irritating and everyone here dresses like a hipster. Also why the hell are men's clothes so stupid?!

geep> yeah, people have weird political fears because of the whole "omg gender is like 2 rite?!" phenomenon. For some reason, I've noticed that people take my being trans personal, as if it's somehow an attack on them by me wearing men's underwear and remembering to tape down the moobs. I think there's a wave of insecurity about it. (I have a friend/coworker who is constantly telling me how he is glad transpeople do their thing, but he finds it disgusting. It's funny to watch him act like an asshole.)

So on one hand, it's nice that someone has actually said "HEY! I'm preggers!". The problem is that no matter how you attempt to portray yourself in the media, people are always going to think you're some crazy sick fuck. Mixed bag, really.

May 9th (3 months ago)

Posted by: !gas!panic!

this isn't related at all to this thread, but i got a kick out of this article about vegetarians that was in slate magazine the other day, and i suspect phillip will too:
http://www.slate.com/id/2190872/

May 9th (3 months ago)

Posted by: 1252

bacon is nebulous to me

May 10th (3 months ago)

Posted by: +Ill

Also why the hell are men's clothes so stupid?!

Yeah srsly. Although I do like wearing ties sometimes, but usually slung pretty low.

I think there's a wave of insecurity about it.

Definitely. I get numerous attempts from people to explain the way I like to present myself sometimes, usually all wrong, because some people's minds just can't reconcile a hetero-male who wears make-up and girls jeans and jackets and things, without being gay or bi or transgender or transvestite. You wouldn't think pink corduroy's were a big deal, I mean, they're cut like men's pants... but hey I like them. You're right about the binary way of thinking being pretty stuck (I accidentally typed suck then... FREUDIAN TYPO! GENDER SUX LOL)... but TBT gender doesn't have much use for me, but if I had to I would say I was androgynous--in terms of personality/mood/behaviour all the time, but it goes through phases in terms of just appearance for me. Sometimes I'm happy enough in jeans and a t-shirt with three days of stubble,other times I want to wear animal prints and eyeliner and necklaces and pluck my eyebrows and shave every day...

...srsly though I wish they would stop saying "gender" instead of "sex" on official forms.

!g!p! nice article! Very lol...

they call themselves vegan, which rhymes with "tree men." These people are intense. ilat

It's funny though, if you search the past vegetarian discussions you can see me saying "I don't mind what other people eat" and stuff which is pretty much not true any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i'm not emaline